I wish the nuance was as easy to explain. I work on trying to make it easier to understand, but when people are ignorant of how money even works, how do you then give an explanation that requires them to apply it? I agree that there needs to be an explanation, and the problem is that all you have to do is regurgitate nonsense propaganda we’ve been fed our whole lives to “understand” the other narrative, and nobody asks the question, “well why do people buy it when they bought the other before?”

Again the answer is in the money.

Here’s an analogy that I use to help picture it, maybe this will help:

Imagine you have an honest winemaker, and a dishonest one. The honest winemaker uses high quality ingredients because they care about their product. The dishonest winemaker uses what is the standard. It’s good enough not to raise any eyebrows and he basically labels it the same as his competition. 
The government prints trillions of dollars, wages take years to adjust to it, but input prices and business costs rise almost immediately. 

The good winemaker refuses to compromise on the quality of their wine. He has to raise prices by 15% to keep selling a high quality product. The dishonest winemaker has no problem adding fake coloring, some Monsanto flavors, and then watering down the actual wine to keep the price the same. 

The customers don’t get a 15% pay raise and won’t make up for that difference for a year minimum. Now they are poorer and have to budget on things they never had to before. They see that of the two wines they purchase, one just shot up in price, and the other stayed the consistent.

To them, the honest winemaker is a greedy asshole, while the dishonest one looks consistent and reliable.

The customer only budgeted for X to spend on wine, not X+15%, so they switch to the dishonest winemaker out of either anger at the honest one, which is doubly driven by the profits of the dishonest one who will gladly repeat the politicians stupid “greedy business” bullshit and pay others to repeat it as well with their higher profit and revenue, or they switch out of simple poverty.

The CPI doesn’t account for quality or substance in products, only what customers buy. So CPI comes in at 1% that year, because the quality and ingredients of everything were degraded to make up for a broken, corrupt money. So when people say “it was inflation,” they don’t believe you, because they pay the same amount for wine…

The dishonest winemaker gains a massive influx of customers. The honest one goes out of business. And everyone takes the lesson that to value quality over price is a recipe for disaster, and lying is just “a part of doing business.”

Do this for 60 years and you can rot the core of any nation on earth. 

 Wow, great analogy!!! 

 🙏🏻 I try. It’s not easy to explain though like @Dakota said 

 imo the idea of "How could the free market prevent this" is a misunderstood approach
you can fix it, you can tell your loved ones and close friend to fix it
the "market" is nothing but the addition of all the decision each human does, not a being in and on itself.
we can argue a lot on how the gvm might fix it or had caused this, which they have a lot of influence over sadly due to the fact that a lot of ppl blindly listen to them + they can influence a lot of decision by tax and regulation.
but at the end WE have the control over our lives.
you can chose different food even if the gvm tells you it's bad, cause you are free
you can move to another state where taxes are diffrent
or even another country
trying to blame or hope for "the market" or the "government"  to solve it all won't solve you anything.
it's much easier than one might have been made to believe by our education system.

on another topic, the long answer as to how in hell did the health / food / education system reached this point I recommend:
"Fiat Food: Why Inflation Destroyed Our Health" by  Matthew Lysiak
or if you prefer videos he has made some interviews
he did a lot of research into the chain of events leading to this point in time and how the additive pressure of:
short time solutions + religion bias + lobby by food industry + trying to cover it all up = here we are now 

 Ok

https://media4.giphy.com/media/26gsvAm8UPaczzXz2/giphy.gif?cid=9b38fe914kgvqs528hi4j35or7ri6ldgk74e0zg4tw1uc04t&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g 

 As you don't want to engage in a friendly debate about it I'll try leave with something of use. 

You said 'try find things without these oils in' at the store.......that is a ridiculous overblown statement. There are plenty of foods that don't have them. People that often shop foods that have long ingredient lists with said crap are the ones usually uneducated about better choices. 

For those healthy, active people that do eat things with said ingredients in now and then is absolutely no issue. This is why is good to do at least 9 monthly blood work for a combination of certain biomarkers that you can actually see if you're over doing it or not. Then of omega 6's are high then consume more omega 3 then you do now which will saturate the cellular membrane more than the 6's. 

It really doesn't need to be so over complex and all this fear mongering with specific foods like you're doing, it's not helpful for on lookers that just don't know what to eat because you make it sound like anything but steak and thin air is only good for you they think fuck it I'll just eat any old shit. 

I've literally had to have this exact convo with people for over 10 years now because they don't realise that they're doing more harm to the people they think they're educating by telling them everything is toxic and gonna kill them!

From a fellow steak lover myself I always like to ask people with your views, why do you eat steak where there are known carcinogenic ingredients in it? Is it because the dosage is so small that there's no effect on health outcomes? Yeah, well use your same logic to seed oils.....BRO

 

 I don't say everything is toxic and is going to kill them. I talk about a specific list of things that just happen to be in tons of our "normal" foods that are toxic and cause significant health problems, and to get food without them. 

We are the sickest generation ever in the history of this country and we are also one of the unhealthiest populations in the western world. If you hand wave this away with "people just need to exercise but our food is fine" then there isn't much of a conversation to be had because, imo, you aren't even looking for an explanation. You are just trying to find an excuse for what's "normal" by apparently (as you seem to have just done) claiming that "it's normal" and thus not a problem or "too hard."

Ironically seed oils weren't at all normal, and were only used as engine oil back in the "60 years ago" when most of the other things weren't a problem either, and far more of what we consumed were basic real foods and high in animal fats... interesting 🤔  

 Interesting indeed.  as a child of the 60s and early 70s I distinctly remember our house switching over from lard to Crisco and Wesson oil. Seemed like lots of food was less tasty and 3 of us boys developed a "spare tire" around our waists.  

 A lot changed in the 70s and a lot of problems, coincidentally, came with them. Just completely swapping "vegetable" oils with something like lard/butter is kinda crazy the amount of change and improvement most people I've commit to it have experienced. There are plenty of other things as well, but that is definitely a big one in my experience.

This was one of the very first things we did when we started our journey about 15 years ago now. 

 I started cutting out “vegetable” oils a few years ago replaced with butter and animal fat. I feel much better since making the switch. I had a “cold” for the first time a few weeks ago after a particularly stressful week where I didn’t get much sleep. Even then, it was pretty mild compared to what I would have experienced back when I ate standard American diet foods. 

 I'm also not saying that rapeseed oil being put in everything is the source of ALL of our problems, btw. If you base a person's entire position and their thoughts off a single note with a single paragraph then you are bound to develop plenty of assumptions that have little to do with what they actually think.

I'm also perfectly aware there are grey areas, that the list of carcinogens is ridiculous, and that to "avoid everything" is an absurd statement. Very little of anything regarding diet can be considered "conclusive and undeniable" and yet everyone discusses it like it is, while its clearly one of the least reliable sciences and horribly difficult to control for because of the near infinite amount of other factors involved.

Which is why I think basic heuristics and common sense are the most important tools.  

 No but you constantly make out seed oils are in everything so what practical advice does that leave  people that haven't a clue about health decisions when they think most foods are bad for them from your doom mongering. I never ever make out it's easy, that's why I went into that line of work. UTXO was correct in the view that it's just over consumption of these crap foods. Are seed oils a contributing factor?....of course, like anything else that's over consumed. I can literally find any ingredient in any of the foods people eat in a paper somewhere that is harmful but you have to realise that most (not all) have little effect on human outcomes. Please bare this in mind. 

There is plenty of easy home blood tests you can do to track these things and adapt accordingly. And there are some simple adjustments from knowledgeable people that you can continue to consume bad foods now and then. Because we are human and there aren't many people that eat super clean 7 days a week. 

I've tested enough people and have collective real world results from thousands of others that have better biomarkers that do this than the people that just blurt out just stop seed oils. In fact, the majority of people have never done once single blood test to even evaluate what their status is, they just guess. You won't feel chronic inflammation until it's too late because it will have been building up for decades before.  

 You're missing the point, imo.  There was never a reason nor any benefit to having seed oils in our foods. Literally none. Of course you can consume them in limited amounts without great harm. This is generally true of like 959% of things that are toxic or bad for you. They only do significant harm in large amounts. But you can also eat almost all of the same foods withOUT putting canola oil in them. You can cook your food in lard and butter instead of seed oils. You can gear your diet toward healthy fats. This is what we did for basically always until very recently.

If the grocery store has something bad in like 90% of their products, then all you have to do is support and purchase the products that don't put this in the food. Viola. And it helps to solve a stupid problem that never needed to exist in the first place.

Of course you can just stop eating as much of something toxic and it'll do less harm, but it is not good for you regardless, and there's zero reason for it to be in our food. It isn't food, it's bad for us, and we should stop using it. The point of telling people is so they know. That happens to be a prerequisite to solving ANY problem.

For the record, it isn't that hard to avoid them either. You just have to be careful about picking stuff up off the shelf and you have to be cognizant of what you are putting in your body. You can also easily just ask just about any restaurant out there to "please can you cook my steak or food in butter instead of vegetable oil?" And like 90% will just say "sure." I do this everywhere I go. 

It's not that hard, but no its not going to come without any effort at all or in total blissful ignorance on the part of the consumer. 

 I know exactly the point. I'm well studied on these topics and had extremely in depth conversations over the years, I do however agree with alot of these things you've said in this reply though. We are all trying to help others be more aware. I personally think most do a terrible job of it with a huge lack of understanding and nuance.