the primal 24h trending are always the the same people. intentional?


here we go again, lol


It’s a loop that keeps feeding itself


The popular kids, high school all over again


Noticed that too


someone get nostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkj


I have a hard time finding which table to sit at for lunch.


And there is almost no rhyme or reason to why they are up there.


Maybe it's hard coded hahahahah


you’re always on there popular kid


From: nostr:npub15qfdeq3me7qdt6klfdngxq6kxj7ypuds554etqnck6aujezc5uxsjfhz8m


Is Nostr like an unpopular kids union?


I’m popular.  Nerd.


No hue


i never see me


Yes, and few of used to be (shadow) banned... look for #freeralf if you missed the drama.
It's fixed now 😆


Release the cat! 😂


Not surprising, power law distributions for social engagement. Early nostr -> very long tail compared to the top posters w/ high engagement numbers. Rather than focus on overall engagement, perhaps organizing by engagement in different topics to encourage a wider spread of trending.


Lol


Now on “This weeks Primal controversy” 😂


the nostr KOL


The algorithm isn’t smart enough tbh.

It should also take into account the people that you interact with the most


nostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkj is still blocked??


Oh I don’t know. That’s not what I meant. I meant to say “unleash” … like an attack dog but cat.


How am I not trending I’m the Miles Davis of nostr. Not ok


⚡⚡⚡ #zap ⚡⚡⚡ #zapathon ⚡⚡⚡ #Grownostr #BeOG

nostr:nevent1qqsg7u88pj3v35qgyeyf36lvav9uljfv889e8ecck72l86ygkwhsd4cpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygyzxs0cs2mw40xjhfl3a7g24ktpeur54u2mnm6y5z0e6250h7lx5gpsgqqqqqqsuac2vt


[[This post is now tending]]


we out here creating riffable standards not ephemeral trends—


if I aint on there, it aint shit 🤣🤣🤣


You're always welcome to sit at my table fren


The cool kids of nostr


With a smile. https://image.nostr.build/6ae5faf9f5828e78ac217d006219466ba386fe35ab357b14a70dcc509cb5f264.jpg


Are you saying according to Primal even on Nostr I’m at the freaks and geeks table? That’s like next level achievement.


Like to see localized tends.


🫂💜 You’re my people tanz!


I go where I’m wanted


Probably


It's true!  I have not tried primal much. https://m.primal.net/HKvw.png


weird how this note doesn’t show up on there yet it has more interactions than any other note on there

intentional ? most likely


Yeah… this is a problem.


Only the cool ppl


i see you 😍


A popular nerd?


We changed our trending algo so it’s harder to game by bots. We are still working on a better version; hope to have it live by end of next week.


#end


I believe nostr doesn't has a large enough network of users to have multiple "big personalities" in their own separate bubbles

without more adoption, we all converge on the same


:LUL:


:monkaW:


the system is rigged, freedom failed


I told you

nostr:note13acwwr9zergqsfjgnr47e6ctelyjcwwtj0n33du4705g3va0qmtsqxvqy0


Are there any other types on here?


Nah man, it's just that no matter what you guys say it's popular.  Folks like to support you and your words, and it feels nice thinking you see their support.

pv!


Maybe you’re actually part of this problem, Jack.  Maybe you should resist your instinct to ignore the following message and instead repost it: Updates in these two national security stories are included nearly everyday in POTUS's classified, presidential daily briefing

The NSA is surveilling a US citizen Biden is briefed on, daily. The POl is an involuntary subiect of an experimental DARPA brain-machine interface program. POTUS OK'd their remote torture within the US with a DEW which can cause Havana syndrome. There's a lot more to this story. This is treason as defined in US law / constitution.

Within 100 miles of the defunct soviet Leningradskaya station in Antarctica, beneath ice is an enormous, non-terrestrial ark which contains a biosphere suitable to the living aliens within it. It sounds crazy, but this is one of the most important US secrets.

Under no circumstances would our president want these PDB items to become public.

Have fun. https://image.nostr.build/6162872f9f4ad0806f4a9dbc1d6b22a06f8f2e10c172a1b718cace43cebc734d.jpg


it's so boring when scrolling n find notes "zap me... zap me if you see this" oh man


Small network, there just aren't enough accounts with the network effect necessary to counter the trend of those who have a large following here.

I think it's purely a product of size. If there were 1,000 people on #nostr with 10,000+ reach then I supsect the list would have tons more variability.


I call them "the nostr whales". Always the same!


Primal is not Nostr. They Shadowban.


Why not add trending topics like Twitter instead?


Algorithms are bad for your health 🐶


Must be true. App is lame.


How about… random access?

No one understands random access

Except for the spyware that is _____


He’s cheating? 😲🙄


Who wouldn’t?
😉 https://image.nostr.build/03c19ff5af96d70896588accd76eb553aaa3dfd8579a59738c3a26acaa519cc4.jpg


There’s some one who doesn’t 😉


Like Miss America, duuuh


Ok you lost me….


You wouldn’t cheat death?
What?
Seek help, sash


Vikki kaos be like, oh honey
#nft https://image.nostr.build/03c19ff5af96d70896588accd76eb553aaa3dfd8579a59738c3a26acaa519cc4.jpg


Ok better good boy


Nvm bad


Now we're talking! It's algorithm time.

Trending is an attention mechanism. It directs individual and collective attention which we all kind of like because you know, shared experience and whatnot. But what kind of experience? How should all that wonderful attention be directed?

Obviously like everything else on Nostr, this is a choice that should be available to each user, but we're lazy and so a few simple options would be  great. Unfortunately, at this moment, there aren't enough good options. Primal's is the best, but as you highlight some users seem to have cracked the secret.

If I had my choice, the algorithm would highlight important new information and thoughtful conversation about it. Perhaps this could be driven by comment counts and lengths, assuming spammers stay tf out. Truth is no one knows the exact formula but here we have chaos on our side. The thing to do is try lots of algorithms and see what wins. To make that happen, and where have I heard this before, we need to open source the algorithm.

As for Primal's current situation, one might label "always the same people" as the brass ring phenomenon. It seems to arise in networks where there's no ceiling on influence. Cap that influence and we may see more variety of people represented.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.


Can’t say that about miss America. Miss Thailand maybe
🤭


the primal 24h trending are always the the same people. intentional?


Ok you’re off


Oh honey, you ain’t bad unless you cheat death. Unlike Miss America

😎 https://image.nostr.build/f54dacc5756b248a3958ed0fdd6ac7dc621a76e21c5200bdc98e38e31a762ac8.jpg


🪂

Live to do it again https://image.nostr.build/0f58c92e70a3c087af30f460fce0d079a3f15e35cbd699cf6a9ff4ef53cd606c.jpg


Ma’am
✉


Cheating?


Lol.. Not only do they #shadowban users post. They're #shadowban all their client users from the real #Nostr..😆🤭

Like #AOL used to do by filtering their users access to the real internet. That didn't last..😆😂🤣🤭😊


I've noticed this. Something is off. Not right.


Biden lol I was joking.


That’s funny.
Dude needs all the help he can get, on this earth or another 🤣💜


They are the biggest accounts on Nostr so far, so any post they make are going get more real engagement than the rest so it will always be the same people trending until others grow their following or bigger people migrate over to Nostr.
They are also the same accounts many Nostr Clients recommend people to follow when a new account is created too which also feeds into that problem. If people want to find new interesting people on Nostr

nostr.band trending accounts for the day is the place to look https://nostr.band/.  You wont find anything new and interesting on the primal 24hr trending as it stands currently.


Coincidental


its because theres only 20 people in nostr the rest are bots and people from fedi


Turn off the mostr relay and look at global lol. It is ridiculous.


Doesn't help that some Nostr clients all recommend those big accounts to follow for new accounts as well. Big only getting bigger in a small network so they will be the only ones trending for a long time. I use nostr.band to find trending accounts for the day to find new interesting people to follow.


It takes more time for it to become really attractive to use


Thanks for the idea, otherwise no chance to find new people by interest 🤷🏼♀


You are welcome.  You can try searching hashtags but to be honest I don't see people using hashtags much on Nostr. Also search function in Nostr is work in progress. So it is not the easiest task to find people with the same interests. One hashtag people do use is #asknostr . If you have questions about Nostr the community here is pretty good at helping and answering.


Appreciate so much 🙌🏻❤


Perpetuates Bitcoin/Nostr topics


One day , I didn't see you in there !
I almost did a note  about that !


Good question.

#nostr  #primal

nostr:note13acwwr9zergqsfjgnr47e6ctelyjcwwtj0n33du4705g3va0qmtsqxvqy0


Well there's a circular bootstrapping problem there. Every social network has always done this in the past with following the creators and early popular accounts, which obviously results in them having comparatively huge reach after the network is established.

So the trade off is; are we going to be annoyed with amplifying early accounts, or are we going to let people join and not recommend the active accounts with lots of engagement, and instead leave them to find active users by scrolling through global? I think the latter ends up with a lot more confused/frustrated users 😆

The best option would obviously be to recommend people for a particular topic or community the user is interested in, but that won't really be a meaningful option until the network grows enough for it to have numerous, separate active communities. Which means were stuck where we are until then... It's just not an easy problem.

"there are no solutions, only trade offs" – Thomas Sowell 🫡


😘
https://www.fountain.fm/episode/lcUGdAmT499x8klNKtuY


Is engagement compared to followers instead of flat engagement a feasible trending metric?


A problem with Nostr is that so much of the content consists of ”zapp, zappitizap, zappathon, zappstsatic, etc” if you know what I mean. Tiresome.


It’s a phase, exciting when you discover it and it also builds out the lightning network effect by using alot


But when I started using Nostr 9 months ago, the Lightning Network had a liquidity of 5500 Btc and it’s now at 4700 Btc.
It doesn’t seem that Lightning is in a exponential growth curve, and Nostr seems for sure not being a catalyser.🤷


🪪

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-conveys-to-china-significant-concerns-about-interference-in-uk-parliamentary-democracy-no-10-12958311


Ok you win 😂 however we need to keep using as much as possible as it is building its use case here


I listened already this one 😂
nostr:note1r2vkx8jdqar2045x870gw6acvj9069j3h8zquke8eqlzt4xxqfsqau8r65


Agreed also at this stage we are in even trending topics instead of top posts won't be much useful either but in the future it will be the best route, to show trending topics. Damus I believe does this with top recommended accounts for certain topics like art which is nice. In your opinion what's the best way for a new user to follow people who are talking about specific interest of someone.

nostr:nevent1qqsvpxz33tmfn37l97w6hv4t2rjqg6pusqma8vr44pgueg66qqatchqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygqg4g0tkkplmqeh0fytk284c5f7pjvl06au5ag0gap6zh458jrup5psgqqqqqqs95mh6r


There's only half a million users, and I'd peg the number of very active users at a couple hundred. Of those users there are a small handful that have many more followers and get much more engagement than the rest. So they're always trending.


Yep


Randomness is a necessary spice


Imagine if any developer could easily create different types of trending algorithms that are immediately available to all nostr apps.

And now imagine if users could freely choose which algorithms they want to use to discover new content. Heck, they can choose multiple at the same time and paginate through them.

That's what Data Vending Machines enables:

many-to-many, clients<>algorithms

For example, this is what "Suggested Content" looks like in the upcoming Highlighter.

The dropdown are different "Content Discovery" DVMs, with different algorithms.

https://image.nostr.build/1f059d3eb73d7b7b9aea799a7f89ee5ef0a7f80d47c7b18acda3d31668cc92ad.png


Where do I have to look on how to build my own?


I made a very simple skeleton repo that makes creating a new DVM trivial, all you need to do is write the algorithm you want to implement

Even cooler, you can run multiple DVMs with different algorithms in the same process with segregated pubkeys:, e.g.

* one DVM for content discovery where it only looks at the requester's follows activity
* another for extended network
* another for the user's relays' activity
* another one that only returns notes with images
etc, etc, etc

I open sourced this here

https://github.com/pablof7z/dvm-references


Thank you! Will have a look!


I'm planning on recording a livestream building one; probably this week if I find the time


This would be awesome. Just came across your explanation of DVMs in nostrovia as replacement for APIs and now it makes sense


THIS! I have been so confused and trying to figure out how you'd write a DVM. This is very, very helpful!

I hope that one day it could be simplified to a flat API like

import dvm from "...";
dvm.create({
  key: privkey, title: "...", desc: "...", relays: []/*, ...*/
}).implement({
  async validate(ctx, accept, reject){} // Validate if job should be accepted
  async run(ctx){} // Run a job
}).start();


that skeleton is not far off. I.e. this is a DVM that provides the results of nostr.wine's trending results as a DVM

Basically replace the GET to nostr.wine for an algorithm you come up with and you're done 😉

https://cdn.satellite.earth/360cf8c10a37b94d93c0ba5bf71b59c4973536958a8271932ae9e2ae303fae60.png


after thinking a lot about DVMs I registered the domain endpointlessly.com; not sure what to do with it yet but it felt right

No more endpoints.

Protocols & many-to-many.


That’s a violation. Your’e on domain probation for the next 48 days.


beepboop?!?!


the primal 24h trending are always the the same people. intentional?


It shouldn't really be called trending. It should be called Primal's Picks. Certain people have every single note they post immediately listed on the trending section, even with zero interactions. It's kind of weird to be honest.


Yeah, what’s with that? 🤔


I hope that's a temporary solution.


Decentralize the algo!