These days there are some great self-custodial Bitcoin Lightning wallets to choose from. Some even integrate an LSP so you don't have to manage your own channel liquidity.

Here is a simplified overview of the major players and how their fee arrangements differ.

https://m.primal.net/HQrU.png

As Bitcoin on-chain fees rise, you should have a basic understanding of where LSP costs are incurred so you can plan accordingly.

For example, funding your wallet will allow you to send, but if you are receiving lightning payments you will require inbound liquidity.

If you want to receive a payment on a new wallet, an on-chain transaction may be required on behalf of the user by the LSP in order to provide the necessary capacity.

In high Bitcoin fee environments this can sometimes result in unforeseen transaction fees. Be aware.

The devs are working hard and shipping improvements and new features all the time.

As these products develop I'll attempt to publish any  relevant updates.

⚡


Followed

Followed


Where its blix?


Will add to next version! I feel like its slightly more technical than the other options but its a great wallet


Yes, it is, congrats in any case, great comparative 👏👏👏


This is incredibly helpful! Thank you!


Thank you for the info 🙌


Onchain fees are affecting the usefulness of these wallets right now. Telling a new user they have to pay 40k sats/$15 just to have the privilege to spend on lightning is terrible UX. I currently use or have previously used all the wallets above  and I am hoping they can continue to innovate to improve the UX or else lightning is doomed to cucked custodians.


Thanks Tony. I left the 40k off the chart since your team mentioned it will switch to dynamic soon. I'll continue to update over time as features roll out eg. LN addresses etc.


I agree. My main motivation was to spread awareness of these trade offs.

The availability of this information either online or in the UX also varies from wallet to wallet.


This is really where Lightning non-custodial really fails. Regardless of how much improvements are done to the UX, this will remain an issue.

I heard solutions like using one channel for multiple users, I wonder if my understanding is correct, but that could be a trade off some willing to make.

I doubt this will be the future. We will have to wait and see.


It'd be cool if all LN wallets could be set up to draw sats from a single, sovereign repository (like my self-hosted LN node).

That way, the user could enjoy (and possibly pay for) the wallets' UX  and networking connection features while not having to worry about what Apple's or Google's "panties in a snit" disposition might be.

Mutiny gets pulled from European users? Fine. Use one of the other 10 wallets connected to your sat stash. Another one goes dead? 9 left.

What Am I missing here because I know I'm missing something.

nostr:note12speh3nefvapp59geqhktt0z2qtpy5vtyv4wmseywnejpaeewgjs02vnxr


Do you have the same but for the apps that allow you to connect to your own nodes? I know only Zeus so far:)


Very helpful recommendation and fee-comparison!

Another dimension worth considering is LNURL support. For people who were using WoS because of Zaps, this is an important question when looking for an alternative.


is the first open still 100,000?


For ingoujd liquidity allowance, mutiny gives 100k sats


Alby can also connect to your own node.


Also Blue Wallet come to think of it. Works nicely.


I have Blue Wallet but never tried to connect it to my own node … 😲 does it handle LSP and/ or LNRUL as well!?


I would add Blixt that supports lightning addresses for #Nostr zaps.

nostr:nevent1qqsvdntsyy9nscsv5dyztg4kdmksgr7rld3ft36edy53lpred792w0gpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzqadlydf3460e333fjkaqwxg7fz82636ew5m36c7hml2xhhsml2y4qvzqqqqqqytsk9jn


“ For example, funding your wallet will allow you to send, but if you are receiving lightning payments you will require inbound liquidity.” This is something never clicked with me. Yesterday I decided to make the leap of faith and go for the Mutiny thinking to myself when I’m actually using it, I will understand how it works. Nope. Still no clue and lots of sats lost with channel fees and stuff 🤦🏻


Can it?!


Yup


I've always liked Phoenix. Just make sure to open a large channel at first.


Very important info! Thanks and greets
nostr:nevent1qqs9gqumceu5kwss6z5vstm94h39q9sj2x9jx2hdcvj8fueq7uuhyfgppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5pzquhj9h4s3ktk0sjs4243j70tk3h2agyvsmv6cnzeu3m0dp29l2q6qvzqqqqqqyva5ela


These days there are some great self-custodial Bitcoin Lightning wallets to choose from. Some even integrate an LSP so you don't have to manage your own channel liquidity.

Here is a simplified overview of the major players and how their fee arrangements differ.

https://m.primal.net/HQrU.png

As Bitcoin on-chain fees rise, you should have a basic understanding of where LSP costs are incurred so you can plan accordingly.

For example, funding your wallet will allow you to send, but if you are receiving lightning payments you will require inbound liquidity.

If you want to receive a payment on a new wallet, an on-chain transaction may be required on behalf of the user by the LSP in order to provide the necessary capacity.

In high Bitcoin fee environments this can sometimes result in unforeseen transaction fees. Be aware.

The devs are working hard and shipping improvements and new features all the time.

As these products develop I'll attempt to publish any  relevant updates.

⚡


💯

nostr:note12speh3nefvapp59geqhktt0z2qtpy5vtyv4wmseywnejpaeewgjs02vnxr


Seconded!


Lightning is retarded.


Need to check, But they don't have an app, only browser extension


Ah yes, self custody over three layers of trust and security weakness.


LN has more in common with banks than it does Bitcoin.


Very useful note
nostr:nevent1qqs9gqumceu5kwss6z5vstm94h39q9sj2x9jx2hdcvj8fueq7uuhyfgpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzype0yt0tprvhvlp9p24tr9u7hdrw46sgepke43x9nerk76z5t75p5qcyqqqqqqgaxucuh


Amen


Thx for that graphic 🙏👌!

Breez Channel closing/swap out is really that expensive 👀🤯?

0,5% fee + Mining Fee
and
❗50k Sats minimum❗

???


"Send to a BTC Address

Sending to a BTC address involves a trustless reverse swap. Reverse swaps require a minimum transaction amount of 50k sats. Please note that in a high fees environment, the minimum amount may be higher.

Further, Boltz, the reverse swap provider, charges a fixed service fee of 0.5% plus an additional mining fee, which is based on the current bitcoin mempool usage."

Thx a lot, now I get it 👍!
The minimum amount for swap out is 50k Sats, NOT the costs.
Seems I need more coffee this morning hehe 😅☕!


I believe Zeus uses LDK, not LND.


It's a slightly modify version of LND. That was part of the controversy with the Mutiny guys.
LND not focusing on Bitcoin stuff like Bolt12 and other stuff. Apart from the 24 locks that where happening with Zaps

nostr:npub1mutnyacc9uc4t5mmxvpprwsauj5p2qxq95v4a9j0jxl8wnkfvuyque23vg I'm I correct?


Missing Green wallet. CLN implementation


Is it globaly available to install? My version doesn't seem to have LN greenlight support


I read somewhere that new phoenix version is not Eclair anymore but their new impl that started in ios and now also on android.


Muun isn't a good LN wallet. Here are much better options: nostr:nevent1qqs9gqumceu5kwss6z5vstm94h39q9sj2x9jx2hdcvj8fueq7uuhyfgpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzquhj9h4s3ktk0sjs4243j70tk3h2agyvsmv6cnzeu3m0dp29l2q6qvzqqqqqqy3pwkgm


🙏 value


You need to enable experimental features


Watching the engagement stats on a banger note update in real time is pretty cool...

nostr:nevent1qqs9gqumceu5kwss6z5vstm94h39q9sj2x9jx2hdcvj8fueq7uuhyfgpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejsygrj7gk7kzxewe7z2z42kxteaw6xat4q3jrdntzvt8j8da59ghagrgpsgqqqqqqs8j6yep


Zeus embedded node uses LND https://image.nostr.build/9056d02ebc44891d820adf34aa6ceb7a85ee07b63875a123fc3e9c8a0abc42df.jpg


What do you think of Muun?


It's on, still no signs of greenlight....


Then you have to add a new wallet and you should see the option.


Sorry, add account. Idk you should be able to add it after enabling somehow. I just forgot How


You missed Blixt and Electrum.
Blixt is a powerful LND node.
https://i.postimg.cc/260zFbq0/wallets_security_chart.jpg


All of these wallets are cool, healthy competition...not toxic drama is what is needed


These days there are some great self-custodial Bitcoin Lightning wallets to choose from. Some even integrate an LSP so you don't have to manage your own channel liquidity.

Here is a simplified overview of the major players and how their fee arrangements differ.

https://m.primal.net/HQrU.png

As Bitcoin on-chain fees rise, you should have a basic understanding of where LSP costs are incurred so you can plan accordingly.

For example, funding your wallet will allow you to send, but if you are receiving lightning payments you will require inbound liquidity.

If you want to receive a payment on a new wallet, an on-chain transaction may be required on behalf of the user by the LSP in order to provide the necessary capacity.

In high Bitcoin fee environments this can sometimes result in unforeseen transaction fees. Be aware.

The devs are working hard and shipping improvements and new features all the time.

As these products develop I'll attempt to publish any  relevant updates.

⚡


Here is also a very goo AMA with 3 LSPs
very interesting answers
https://stacker.news/items/282711


Hi, I think that will help a lot to make your decision 😊🤙 ...

nostr:nevent1qqs9gqumceu5kwss6z5vstm94h39q9sj2x9jx2hdcvj8fueq7uuhyfgpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgq3qwtezm6cgm9m8cfg242ce084mgm4w5zxgdkdvf3v7gahks4zl4qdqxpqqqqqqzd355up