"Jack Dorsey quit Bluesky and has been focusing on Nostr (which I can best describe as "a more uncomfortable version of Secure Scuttlebutt for Bitcoin people to talk about Bitcoin")."

https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/


This is a good article.


The answer is: Bluesky solves this problem via centralization. Since there is really just one very large relay which everyone is expected to participate in, this relay has a god's-eye knowledge base. Entities which sort through mail and relevant replies for users are AppViews, which pull from the relay and also have a god's-eye knowledge base, and also do filtering. So too do any other number of services which participate in the network: they must operate at the level of gods rather than mortals.


The outbox model being widespread would end the "can't see the message" problem. Frustrating, how slow the implementation has been.


Reading this article just made me crazy bullish because it costs nearly zero money and zero technical expertise to run a Nostr relay, now, and the cost is rapidly dropping, so that we could put relays even into embedded systems and e-paper readers and smart watches.

So friggin bullshit on Nostr.


What you see from the article, is that:

Everywhere else, relays are the problem.
On Nostr, relays are the solution.


it's incredible they don't consider the idea that there doesn't need to be a global


Well, have you forgotten how many people muted me, for wanting custom relays? Remember the whole censorship debate and the dickpick episode?


i don't remember the dickpic episode but i certainly bumped into some nonsense once or twice

anyway, yeah, it's just becoming normal now, and clients have caches of all the relays and add any new ones you add to it, it seems, even when you log out and remove its data

i mean, my relay now even lets me automatically control who can post to my relay and because of nip-65, i am actually getting people posting their events to my relay who are on my follow list


Well, I guess nobody was sending you dickpicks. 😂

It's amazing how peacefull and family-friendly Nostr is, now. It used to sometimes feel like a warzone because of the lack of customizable relays and outboxes. Everyone was on lol and band, so perverts and scammers and spammers could just hit everyone, with one fell swoop. Now, they have to cross a bunch of gates and hunt us all, individually, and that effectively shuts most of them down, by increasing the effort.


So funking bullshit!

Can have node in fone! Has node in fone!

Bullshit as funk! 😎


my first nostr gig was helping build sprockets for access control with strfry for cloudfodder

it was and always has been the axe i've been grinding the whole of this year... wen auth... etc


It has been a long while since I've stumbled accross any unsolicited porn on here... and for that I am incredibly grateful 🌞


Ah, I didn't realise bluesky was run by a woman.  Failure is inevitable then.


Won't relays need tonnes of compute/storage resources to process millions of users at some point?


That article just goes on amd on and on...I don't have the attention span anymore. Got to the non decentralised DID bit and gave up.


That network is a paradise for child predators. Zero surprises it gets so much support on left-wing media.

 https://image.nostr.build/25be45227504250fe4e560feb7b98b914d6f8fb98dc41daa4ea0b3f5c068a034.jpg


Yes, but it will be distributed very thinly and mostly be consuming currently idle resources. Also, each relay is it's own separate, slightly-overlapping dataset. No relay needs to contain lots of events. There's actually no point to that, once you have outboxes, communities, performant search, and deep-discovery.

Centralized relays is old tech, basically.


I know, right? I'm legit collecting relays all over out devices and remote servers. Feels like shoe shopping.

Relay for every mood.


should I be reading bullshit as bullish?


The lack of curiosity about Nostr is hilarious.


Yes, famous Nostr #typo. 😂


I burned a lot of social capital, nagging the devs to help me avoid penis, but it was worth it. 😂


nostr:nprofile1qqs8eseg5zxak2hal8umuaa7laxgxjyll9uhyxp86c522shn9gj8crspz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgjwaehxw309ahx7um5wgerztnrdakj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctc58hv2s is the Layer 2 relay 🐐


"Jack Dorsey quit Bluesky and has been focusing on Nostr (which I can best describe as "a more uncomfortable version of Secure Scuttlebutt for Bitcoin people to talk about Bitcoin")."

https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/


Check your email if it's on haveibeenpwned.com

https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/21/hackers-break-into-andrew-tates-online-university-steal-user-data-and-flood-chats-with-emojis/


This details are one of the biggest turnoffs for me. And I haven't give Bluesky app a try but I do use https://mostr.pub/ to bridge my posts and follow people from odher "verses"

https://image.nostr.build/abff3b4cea2fd6cd2a7731e397ec7f4d080e0f41d713f998ddb55855910e460d.jpg

https://image.nostr.build/cfa39104f6d2b3e8324a8d49db8e6547c2bd57c2cba3cd343e73ec8f8080d802.jpg


That's not a bad thing. First of all, the fact that a nostr post might have a reply that you don't know about, or that the reply you send might never be seen by the poster, or that a post might have more likes than you can see, or fewer, or that you can't ever really know how many followers you have—all these things are seen by normal people as a ridiculous step backwards (what kind of bullshit social media works like that?). And one for which no censorship resilience can make up for. Total deal breakers. One big-ass relay fixes that. Also that article makes it seem like only fortune 500 corporations can spin up that big-ass relay, which is nonsense.


yeah, the problem is, just like blockchains with their terabytes of chain data (eg ethereum, steem, etc) that the entire proposition of it being decentralised REQUIRES that you don't make the cost of running a replica of the database beyond AT LEAST middle class budgets, if such a thing even exists anymore

hence most shitcoin nodes are giant fucking 128 core EPYC racks that burn 10kW of power and have half a terabyte of memory and RAID5 with 32 parallel NVMe drives that cost in the order of $250k

and if you actually do the analysis on the data that people want to see in their feeds... about 1% of users content needs to be delivered everywhere, and the rest can be sharded or cached on demand on much smaller nodes

there hasn't been much work on actually making this work for nostr, i personally have been doing some work to make shared large data stores possible, and i have visions of in the future adding the ability to fan out the data store to networks of Blossom nodes so relays only keep the events their users are using and prune off old stuff and when old stuff or stuff not yet known is requested, the requests can cascade until the index is found and returned and cached and the relay itself becomes a node in a bigger cluster that can dynamically deliver content without any hand holding or fancy consensus logic

censorship resistance doesn't matter... until you get censored

and that means you are a content creator, the actual source of value of the network, even if you aren't popular

i literally can't even make one post on any other social media these days because they already have profiled me and i'm pre-censored, have been for over a decade

so, fine for you, mister audience member, but you wouldn't even see my work if it wasn't for nostr's censorship resistance, so, yeah, this entire conversation right now depends on this, so how's them apples?


working on last 2 t-y!     L2L


You left out the bit about it being bad vibes!


Well yeah, but on the other hand nostr's current censorship resistance, in my opinion, is due in very large part to it being off the radar, small—and not the architecture. I get the whack-a-mole argument, but I feel people are greatly exaggerating the difficulty of playing whack-a-mole in this day and age. Any government, sufficiently motivated and resourced, could make it the protocol so painful to make practical use of that, while it would still hobble along for the die-hards, the nostr vision as it stands now would be dead. (In other words it'd be a heck of a lot easier to cripple nostr than people are assuming.)  Rather than censorship resistance I see the real value of nostr being in portability, though for very specific use cases that are not affected by nostr's limitations.


SCUTTLEBUTT MAXI


I think artist dont care about which platform jack support. all the care is bluesky is new platform with better regulation for them than Twitter for upload contents and make money. the phrase "Jack support bluesky" just pros but not key for decision for them. I also see some artist I know talking about blue sky. bluesky allow artist do something the want than other platform


Or maybe the article was ... suspenseful music ... edited.


Can't force clients to respect outbox, and if even if all clients did some users might not want to be forced by their client to publish (and reveal their IP address) to unknown relays and demand to be given a choice. Other thing is there are two types of missed replies, Type A is replies that the replying party does not want the poster to be aware of (think screenshots of X posts with chatter underneath). Type B is posts that the replying party assumes/hopes the poster is aware of but actually the poster isn't aware and never will be. On nostr many users want "Type A Native" (no screenshotting, referencing the actual live post), and that complicates things, since you need a way for users to opt for Type A Native which isn't misunderstood by the client to be Type B.


nostr:nprofile1qqs8qy3p9qnnhhq847d7wujl5hztcr7pg6rxhmpc63pkphztcmxp3wgpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgmwaehxw309a6xsetxdaex2um59ehx7um5wgcjucm0d5hsz9nhwden5te0dehhxarjv4kxjar9wvhx7un89uqaujaz I guess the challenge is to allow/disallow outboxing, on an npub level.


I don't quite get the Type A/B scenario.


Your services have been noted and I am very grateful! 😅


I fail to see how outbox forces users to publish to unknown relays.  The whole point is that clients that want to see your notes go to the relays that you publish on, isn't it?


Oh, right. 😂 Confused it with AUTH.


Is it possible to make a Bluesky relay that includes only selected accounts? Why would I need 5 terabytes for that? Surely hosting all posts in NOSTR would be impossible too.


Hey, I think you have client outbox confused with relay AUTH.


I have a huge scuttlebutt.

nostr:nevent1qqs9ruydya6sxu7ghxdnl0nf2jg785rlly4shdcfhnn8ajfugpgpnjqpzdmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82c30qgsdfx5syw3pmwsm8jpsdj3kn0ejg0vtgju0pdk3r9nq0aasny863hcvnf9qv


"Jack Dorsey quit Bluesky and has been focusing on Nostr (which I can best describe as "a more uncomfortable version of Secure Scuttlebutt for Bitcoin people to talk about Bitcoin")."

https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/


Nostr is the way to go, I’m the co founder of Oviato.com a creator tool for Bitcoin ordinals. And we are banking big on Nostr to build a fair launchpad for ordinals and other Bitcoin meta protocols. Nostr FTW!


You could make a partial relay, but then anyone subscribed to that relay would only know about the posts, likes replies from other people also subscribed to it. But the post would still be out in the wild and able to be commented on by strangers, so there would be lots of missed reactions.

Bluesky's thinking is a lot of people would really hate it not knowing how many likes their post got, or if there are replies that they are not seeing. And posts can get a lot of replies and likes from strangers, and from there good conversations can start. The only way to ensure everyone sees 100% of the likes and replies on a post is if there is a single relay. I kind of agree. For example your reply is not showing up on clients Primal or Iris, but it is showing on Snort and Nostrudel. I would never have seen your reply if I didn't come to Snort to check out this same post after seeing it on Primal. That is very annoying, on Nostr I always suspect I'm missing interesting replies.


Context: I've setup a different mix of popular relays on each to try and simulate the experience of a group of users. But also each client does filtering too, so that adds another "can't be sure" layer.


Such radical ideas. Ampersands.


Nice! Agreed, I too am placing a lot of emphasis on Nostr and believe as more people wake up to what it affords the world, we'll see its growth sky rocket.


1238 notes muted

nostr:npub1sg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q0uf63m do you get the notes ?
https://nostrcheck.me/media/0d8c556f4f8580508a057ee24000ab63aef89ae2c3efdc8018ae4d2c73dfd4d7/97d720de6445c8dde39191c7a3cc939c2129ef917666ba8b488b559865d26824.mp4


What client is this?


doesn’t matter what client
what matters is this protocol is anti-censorship

this must not happen. period


let's attack the issue together


It's very likely to be the client that's doing this. Which one are you using?


all of them


What's the one in the video?


same issue in all the clients

we need to come together
this is a protocol for the internet

do you under-stand?


I'm with her that this seems like an irrelevant sidetracking question but I'm curious if you can explain more

Is there a reason the client in the video would be the one causing the issue, where you know what that reason is even though you don't know what client it is and she said it happens in all?


So then the client's dev could be contacted....

There's no nostr protocol mass mute functionality. So, this is localized.


That didn't exactly address what I said.

I would think what the video shows is that this client displays the problem in an easy way to show on screen, not that it's the client causing the problem.

I'm curious what client it is too, but I'm a bit confused by the whole conversation above


issue: CENSORSHIP


c'mon boy. all localized in same place


Are you on drugs or drunk? lol... There's no collective censorship possible unless some how every single relay operator colluded together, which is certainly an improbability as it is an impossibility. Therefore, it must be your client. But you refuse to answer basic questions I ask in order to help, such as what client you're using in the video. You say "all" but I know that's far from true. I'm using quite a few different clients and I don't see mass muted notes.


Claiming mass censorship without any details but a video that’s not saying much.


Finally, I found it!


anything helpful to add?