I don't care about #Pubky. I'm NostrOnly.


Now what the heck is Pubky?


It seems like they're trying to imitate nostr, but I haven't read docs on it yet. 😂


Exactly. Why not just build on and enhance Nostr?


Something that's not worth my time to explore.


#NostrOnly for you
As a bridge 🌉 I’ll do my thing
We all serve our purpose


All my frens are here.


“why not enhance the fediverse?”
- fediverse people on nostr


I do like em but I think there’s a point 😉


Fedi is inherently broken.


What is to say Nostr isn’t?


It was also a poor name choice


I like the idea of DHT getting around the need for DNS. At least if I understand what proponents of the system have said on nostr, but having not read the docs, I can't really speak on it.


Because Nostr is still very early and now's the time to enhance, build, or change it. ActivityPub is from 2016 and much more set in the ways on how to accomplish tasks and features - it's more mature. Nostr is more malleable.


My loose understanding is that some of this is already being worked on with Nostr by several people.


I thought so too, but I had lost track of the project.


Sames. We have too many 🤣 nostr:nprofile1qqs9pk20ctv9srrg9vr354p03v0rrgsqkpggh2u45va77zz4mu5p6ccpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsz9thwden5te0dehhxarj9ehhsarj9ejx2a30qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj7xph5zr perhaps remembers. He used to share it I believe.


SMTP, POP3, FTP, HTTP, TCP, IP, UDP, all have the best names.


Nostr is not that malleable.


#Pubky is Slashtags rebranded.  Rebranding is never a good sign. Its the same group as the Keet guys. Fundamentally they are struggling with traction, their protocol is obtuse and difficult to build on.

I get that having a bittorrent style DHT might be useful but the latency and discoverability issue is not gonna compete with nostr websockets. And there is a solid reason why SimpleX is using websockets and unidirectional pipelines for their chat servers. It just *Works* better. Not perfect p2p networks but for the purpose of social connectivity you gotta cut some edges off.

Love the idea, but also felt like I wasted enough time looking at Keet/Kademila/Hypercore rebranded twice to Pear. Great marketing but underlying adoption will not happen at Nostr Speed.

Nostr has its problems but its strength is that weekend warriors can contribute and for a scrappy distributed protocol this is what you want. Not $10 million dollar per VC app companies that refuse to hire american citizens and don't really welcome opensource part time contributors.

You are gonna need all the hands you can get to build something anti-big tech and by removing as many complexity barriers as possible you can achieve it with max leverage, less labor and less time to generate the network effect for survival.

#Nostr Will Survive. There are enough builders who don't need a PHD to make it work. That's the #1 key factor here.


It is nor up to us. We want the best censorship resistance available, and that requires a large overlay network, in this case the best is Mainline DHT, but ANY overlay network you can think of uses ed25519 keys, not secp256k1.

So right out of the gate, we can't use npubs to represent identities, at best we can use a sub key to use Nostr relays as free infrastructure, but without real interop because Nostr clients don't know that these  sub keys are all part of one identity delegated to by an ed25519.

would that have been "enhancing Nostr"? if so, feel free to do just that right now. If that is what "other folks on Nostr bringing DHT" means, perfect. Let everyonr have a sovereign ed25519 key. And call it Nost if that makes you happier.


Anyone can make shit on Nostr.
Who can make shit that’s good?


Oooooh, I was not aware it was a slashtags rebrand


your understanding is very outdated, but that is not your fault. Try understanding Pubky with fresh eyes you will find that we are extremely pragmatic


This confirms my suspicions, thanks for doing the homework


Bitkarrot is a legend.


He is wrong, but not to blame for this misunderstanding.


I also didn't know, consider me uninterested now


I guarantee, you can understand Pubky and build a good application on top of it in a weekend, and get out of it underwhelmed too because it felt just like building a local web app with FetchAPI.

But in reality you would have built a censorship resistant application with users having perfect credible exit by controlling who hosts their data and their URLs working transparently even if they migrated to other hosts.


You analyzed it correctly.  Makes every npub a censorship-resistant dns so you can own a piece of the internet.

Where nostr is 6 nodes #pubky is 6 million.

The two systems can work together but pubky is working now.  Nostr could integrate it.  It might take a day, it might take a year, but it wont take 10 years.

Users get 10x or 100x more options.  So some are adopting early.


problem with Keet is the front is still not Open Source after 3 years. I am grinding on this hard because i was an early beta tester.

DHTs can also be a central point of failure but can't even see the deets of how Keet is implemented on the front, unless you want decompile all of that javascript. I don't know what they are hiding and why so long.


pubky does NOT use any of Holepunch stack, none. And it is entirely open source. in fact it is 99% just HTTP


DHT https://github.com/pubky/mainline


Yes and Holepunch team didn't invent or maintain Mainline...they have an entire whole other DHT.

And we only use Mainline to map keys to web servers, then you proceed like you do after you find the IP address from DNS.

No p2p swarming, no Hypercores or even Torrent. Just http, simpler even than websocket and nostr events. If you know Fetch API you know pubky


I do not think pubky is a nostr competitor... the technologies barely overlap imo ..... at the same time, both can benefit from each other... or at least that is how I understood pubky..
Also pkdns is such a cool thing

https://github.com/pubky/pkdns


please, at least check pkdns: https://github.com/pubky/pkdns


I don’t even know what it is


All of this, plus my very few interactions with the pubky guys on nostr have been big turn offs.


Because it isnt, really. Slashtags was an attempt to build our vision using hypercore, we scrapped that design and made Pubky instead.

It took us 1 year to make Pubky. This is a the product of the hard work of a dedicated team trying to help users.

If you want to learn about new things, we have lots of info about what makes Pubky different, but we also understand people feel loyal to their social media protocols, and might prefer to discredit us.


Somewhat surprised to see you arguing in favour of an ICANN only approach.


t-y BITKARROT 4 sharing!


not surprised you are making up things about what you believe I’m in favour of. I am also not picking this as a battle to fight right now


i like nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s 😆


Stay humble 🫂


He's a good man.


so are you.


The fact that he said "BitTorrent style DHT" tells me he doesn't know what mainline is


I have no idea what #pubky is, and at this point, I'm too afraid to ask.
nostr:nevent1qqs8kfa37ldpxwu9nzf5xk7yrvdex90aeuy9hfrz80t4f8p3sj88dhgprfmhxue69uhkummnw3ezucm9wf3kzarjdamxztndv5hsygplwuxkt5a8vj5utj6s8tsj8e3wcavc45p4mqmw92qs7wrh5azmyspsgqqqqqqstcs05g


The most important thing is that it doesn't matter, permissionless protocols don't care about personal opinions, if the thing is good, it will find its way. Keep buidling 💪
nostr:nevent1qqs8kfa37ldpxwu9nzf5xk7yrvdex90aeuy9hfrz80t4f8p3sj88dhgpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3q8ams6ewn5aj2n3wt2qawzglx9mr4nzksxhvrdc4gzrecw7n5tvjqxpqqqqqqzsh9yse


:thugamy:


I thought we are all here because we want to maximize freedom, not because we want to belong to a cult.

We should use all of the tools available to make a better world, and it doesnt really matter who or what created them as long as they provide solutions towards a better future.

We are building for freedom. its hard enough as it is to fight the forces of centralization and compliance without fighting between ourselves and creating new divides.

nostr:note10vnmra76zvactxyngddugxcmjv2lmncgtwjxyw7h2jwrrpywwmwsqfcdcc


It'll take days, once someone takes on the task.  It's an impressively simple solution 😏


I loved POP3 tbh


A Free as in freedom alternative to DNS is as worthy for development as the relay itself.


Same people who make good shit everywhere else.

Another day, another tech stack.


And that’s rare


If you are curious, we made this megapost that guides you through the Pubky system.

https://medium.com/pubky/pubky-the-next-web-3287b35408f1


pkdns is awesome !